Hi Gary! Thanks for your post. I will attempt a reply. I went to Derby Bible Church (Derby, Colorado)where Bob was Pastoring for a number of years. Bob had a pretty major stroke a couple of years ago. Please keep him, and his wife Joan in your prayers.

I have not read Bob Hill’s book but I understand he has an open view of God and believes man’s free will is why He gave Israel conditional promises. I guess in Bob’s world if God knew what would happen He could make all His promises unconditional.

I have trouble in man running the show, so to speak. If God is sovereign then He would be all-knowing and all-powerful. To limit God to explain man’s so-called free will then that’s a major assault on the very nature of God.

~ Why would God say He repented in Genesis 6:5-8

“And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart. And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them. But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.”

Scripture says He knew us before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him In love.

~ True. That is because Christ Jesus was slain before the foundation of the world (Revelation 13:8), and when you believe, you become a part of His body (1 Corinthians 12:12-13). If you believe we were chosen before the world began, that nullifies “whosoever will” in 2 Peter 3:8-9
“But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.”

If God were not all-knowing and all-powerful then how could He say that all things will work together for good…?(Romans 8:28)

~ Because it’s through our bad (and good) choices that we can quote Romans 8:28 as we keep our eyes focused on Christ Jesus our Lord. Please consider Romans 8:31-39

“What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us? He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God’s elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Maranatha!
Jessica

Thank you for considering my request.

Maranatha!
Jessica

Here’s our address on you tube:

http://www.youtube.com/user/TwinCitiesGrace1

Paul divides the Bible

Your statement about the mid-Acts position dividing Paul from the Bible does not make sense. Paul actually wrote about 6% of the Bible and at least 25% of the New Testament through the inspiration of the Holt Spirit. Not only that but Paul very often quotes from the Old Testament. He also made it clear that all Scripture is valuable to study:

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;

All those I know who believe the Church began in mid-Acts uphold the entirety of Scripture and defend the importance of understanding the whole of what God has revealed to us in Scripture. However, we also understand that God has written some things that do not directly apply to us, For instance, God dealt with Israel in a specific manner with specific rules and regulations and with specific blessings that can not be applied to those of us in the Church, the Body of Christ. For instance, God has promised future blessings to Israel in Jeremiah 31:31—34. We can not apply these promises to us.

Paul, the first in the Body of Christ

Paul refers to the body of believers in this age as the Body of Christ. He used this term three times (Romans 7:4; Ephesians 4:12; Colossians 1:24). This term is not used anywhere else in Scripture. Colossians makes it clear that Paul was made a minister of this Body.

Colossians 1:24—25 24Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions. 25Of this church I was made a minister according to the stewardship from God bestowed on me for your benefit, so that I might fully carry out the preaching of the word of God,

Paul was given this revelation of the Mystery by Jesus Christ Who would appear to Paul a number of times to reveal the whole of the Mystery to him.

Ephesians 3:1—3 1For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles–2if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace which was given to me for you;3that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.

Acts 26:16 But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you;

The truths of the Mystery and the Gospel of the Grace of God were revealed to Paul directly from Jesus Christ and this new revelation was taught by Paul to the Apostles and Disciples and was revealed to them as true by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 3:3—5 3that by revelation there was made known to me the mystery, as I wrote before in brief.4By referring to this, when you read you can understand my insight into the mystery of Christ, 5which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit;

The Old Testament saints were of Israel and therefore were looking forward to their promise of land and blessing with Christ on the throne on earth. Those Kingdom saints in Paradise will be given what was promised to them when Christ comes and takes His rightful position as King at His Second Coming. All dead saints are not in a state of sleep. Scripture clearly states that to be absent from the Body is to be present with the Lord (1 Corinthians 5:8). We also see in Luke 16:19—31 that those who have died are conscience in Hades There may be some mid-Acts people who believe in soul sleep but I believe they would be a very small minority.

In contrast to Israel, we have a heavenly hope. The only thing you get when you mix the two economies of Kingdom and Grace is confusion. Every person who ever lived or will live can come into God’s presence through Christ’ shed blood.

Carnal Christian

Apparently, if I understand what you are saying, A Christian cannot sin. By looking into what the Bible says we should be able to see a Christian can be carnal.

1 Corinthians 3:1—3 1And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh (carnal), as to infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3for you are still fleshly (carnal). For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men?

According to this passage, Paul is addressing fellow Christians (brethren) and at the same time calls them carnal. They are secure in their position in Christ but are at the moment living in a manner that is displeasing to God. We all sin and therefore we are all carnal at certain times in our lives. We take our focus off pleasing Christ and focus on pleasing ourselves. It’s the struggle between the old and new nature that will finally come to an end when we are in heaven. Paul puts it this way:

Romans 7:14—20 14For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.15For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.16But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. 17So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 18For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. 20But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

This in no way affects our salvation. We did nothing go obtain our salvation except believe and we can do nothing to lose our salvation. It’s all taken care of by God through Christ and sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 2:8—9 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

I would urge you to take the time to truly understand our position so you will avoid setting up straw-man arguments in the future. Of course, that would assume you truly are seeking the truth instead of just picking a fight. I believe a true understanding of Paul’s message for today’s Church will clear up many issues in biblical understanding.

as you know i sat under that midacts teaching, with you in minn, i have come to see great error in it, while Paul is our apostle, MIDACTS serverly divides Paul from the bible, they do it in such a way as to make midacts a cult, IF I was you ,I would take time to seriously study their errors, ONE< is that PAUL, was the first in the BODY OF CHRIST< total error, PAUL was not, the OLD TESTAMENT saints were, when Jesus took them captive out of ABRAHAMS bosom into the 3rd heaven, they were the FIRST not paul, as MIDACTS teaches, NO one enters heaven, unless its thru the shed blood of Jesus CHRIST< they claim the old testament Saints, are still in SHEOL, sleeping, which is total error, there is no such thing as soul sleep, they also claim, that david didnt ascend so no one else did, another error, DAVIDS body didnt, but his SPirit and SOUL did, one of the greatest errors, they teach is the CARNAL CHRISTIAN lie, coming out of Scofieldism , there is no such thing as a CARNAL CHRISTIAN, in sin, the carnal person, Paul spoke of was in THEOLOGY, not sin, they claim the man at Corinth, fornicating was a saved man, a TOTAL error, from the pits of hell, that insults Christ to no end, when I became aware of midacts errors I left it, if you were wise, you would do the same.

To focus solely on James’ closing statement, that “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” only allows for one interpretation of the passage, that’s why one must consider Jame’s full discorse on the subject, and not just the closing statement. James’ opening statement is equally important. His focus is on refuting the individual who claims to have faith but has NO deeds (v1). This individual completely disregards those in need – therefore his faith can’t be real. James shows that saving faith is an expression (James’ demonstration of faith v18), not an intellectual acknowledgement of truth (the demons’ belief – v19). James’ use of the word “faith” in this passage is meant the mere itellectual acknowledgement of truth. Therefore James does not teach that one EARNS salvation through works, he teaches that the presence of works must be there because that demostrates the legitimacy of one’s faith.

Also important to note is that Paul never teaches that one is justified by faith alone. he teaches that one is justified by GRACE alone (the work of Christ on the cross), through faith (Ephesians 2:7-9). So for James to say a man is not justified by faith (intellectual accent) alone is entirely correct.

I have heard that explanation before about the James passage and it
doesn’t hold much water with me. Was there any “man” up on the Mt. Moriah
to witness Abraham’s faith? No, just the Lord. Furthermore, James is very
clear that man is NOT justified by faith alone…which contradicts what Paul
teaches. James does not say the a man’s FAITH is not justified, he says
that a MAN is not justified by faith alone. Now, we either have to say that
the Scripture doesn’t mean what it says or there is a contradiction or we
have to understand that James was writing to Jews and Paul to the Body of
Christ. I agree that we are saved unto good works-Eph. 2:8-10, but that is
not at all what James is addressing. The Gospel accounts and the early part
of Acts are full of the idea that a Jew had to demonstrate his faith with
action. Repentance, law keeping and water baptism followed all Jews that
believed. If they didn’t follow through with these works, it was evidence
that they did not have faith. For the Jew under the law, faith brought a
sacrifice, faith got water baptized. The book of Hebrews is full of
examples of people with faith that had to do something. Noah is a prime
example. Could Noah had just believed that there was to be a flood? No, by
faith he built an ark. He wasn’t justifying his faith to anyone, his faith
needed works to go hand in hand for completion. Why? Because all that was
prescribed by God before the cross was a type or shadow of the reality that
is in Christ. He is the substance and so now the types and shadows are to
disappear. James had a very hard time with this as Acts 21 reveals. He is
still zealous for the law at a time when Paul was trying to wean Jews off of
the law. For the law only pointed to Christ and now Christ had come and
fulfilled the law, so the types and shadows were null and void. Paul’s
message is different than what the Apostles taught and followed! We are now
justified by what Christ did and not by anything we have done. Again,
understanding the special message given to Paul is the key to unlocking our
understanding of the whole of Scripture. Thanks for your replies.

In Christ

Paul D. Pedro

I believe that Romans 4 is coming from God’s point of view (the heart). Believing is something that cannot be seen with the naked eye. Man cannot see into the heart of another man, only God can; therefore it would be impossible for us to have known that he was a believer unless the Lord told us “He believed and it was reckoned to him…”. This is very important considering that Abraham is the “father” of faith.

James on the other hand, gives an example of Abraham’s life 40 years later, to show faith from man’s point of view. This is brought out in verses 14,15. The point I am trying to make here is, “if a person has genuine faith it will eventually manifest itself by genuine works (action).

Jesus said that a tree will be know by the fruit it bares… So Abraham was simply demonstrating the faith he already had by his actions. This is the only real way a believer can tell the faith of another, since we cannot see into his heart like God can.

The clearest point of this is verse 18 – “someone (not God) may well say, ‘you have faith, and I have works (action): show ME your faith without the action (faith cannot be seen by the naked eye apart from actions [works]), and I WILL (not God) SHOW YOU MY faith by MY ACTIONS…

Thank you for the opportunity to share the word together…
God bless you for your insight and your love for building up the body of Christ.
Blessings
Rev Deb

Thank you for your interest in my article and the kind words that you sent. As to Paul’s comments about not baptizing many; I would agree whole heartily with you that Paul was stressing unity within the Body and that early on in his ministry he did baptize. But, as the “mystery” was more and more revealed to him, water baptism was set aside as Ephesians 4:5 clearly shows. Now, there is only ONE baptism and if it is with water, then the baptism done by the Holy Spirit in 1 Corinthians 12:13 that places every believer into the Body of Christ is null and void. Remember, Paul also “thanked God” that he hardly baptized anyone. Now, we have to ask ourselves; if water baptism was part of the commission that all believers are given, then Paul “thanked God” that he didn’t follow God’s instructions. No, Paul had a different commission than the twelve and it is this recognition that will help you understand the special message given to Paul. Read Ephesians 3:1-3 very slowly. He was given a different message that was never before revealed to anyone. With these “mysteries” came the revelation that now we are NOT to participate in the types and shadows, of which water baptism was a part of. The letter to the Hebrews is crystal clear about this. We are to be in the substance, which is Christ, and not go back to the old way. I would also challenge your assumption that water baptism represents our death and resurrection in Christ. This is found NOWHERE in the Scriptures. Every place that water baptism is mentioned it represented a washing or cleansing or purging. This again was a shadow of what Christ would do for us with His blood. Water baptism pointed to the finished work of the cross. Now that Christ has cleansed every believer, water baptism has as much part in this dispensation as do sacrifices. Everything has been completed by God in the spiritual realm.

Thank you for your interest and if you have any more questions or comments, feel free to write back. I will be taking a look at your website. I love discussing the Lord and the Scriptures, as long as they are our final authority.

In Christ,

Paul D. Pedro

I have added you to my list of friends to follow, as I do feel you have a lot to offer.. And I love being involved with believers sites that give meaty content.. And this is one of them.. I highly respect and appreciate your hard work, as I understand the time and prayer that goes into every study.. Thank you for sharpening my iron today!!
Proverbs 27:17
Iron sharpens iron,So one man sharpens another.
Many blessings
Rev Deb
Ps please drop by and say hi and tool around a bit, Perhaps I could be so blessed as to sharpen a little iron back..

Paul Pedro